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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Our Policy Hasn&#8217;t Changed, Mr. Horowitz&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/</link>
	<description>The Law Office of Fresno Criminal Defense Lawyer Rick Horowitz</description>
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		<title>By: Three-Thousand and Zero &#124; Fresno Criminal Defense</title>
		<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/comment-page-1/#comment-4741</link>
		<dc:creator>Three-Thousand and Zero &#124; Fresno Criminal Defense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/?p=630#comment-4741</guid>
		<description>[...] written one or more articles on this situation in the past, so I won&#8217;t go into all the arguments against [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] written one or more articles on this situation in the past, so I won&#8217;t go into all the arguments against [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Shame of the Juvenile Court &#124; Probable Cause</title>
		<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/comment-page-1/#comment-4657</link>
		<dc:creator>The Shame of the Juvenile Court &#124; Probable Cause</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/?p=630#comment-4657</guid>
		<description>[...] which, right now in Fresno means me &#8212; who challenges this decision will find that although everyone knows the reason is &#8220;policy,&#8221; the court will then give the deputies at least an hour after a challenge to come up with an excuse [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] which, right now in Fresno means me &#8212; who challenges this decision will find that although everyone knows the reason is &#8220;policy,&#8221; the court will then give the deputies at least an hour after a challenge to come up with an excuse [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Starfish: The Obligatory End-of-Year Post &#124; Probable Cause</title>
		<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/comment-page-1/#comment-4112</link>
		<dc:creator>Starfish: The Obligatory End-of-Year Post &#124; Probable Cause</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 00:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/?p=630#comment-4112</guid>
		<description>[...] And after yesterday, where the primary evidence my client might misbehave involved such things as arguing with other kids during a handball game, I can assure you it&#8217;s true: the policy has not changed. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And after yesterday, where the primary evidence my client might misbehave involved such things as arguing with other kids during a handball game, I can assure you it&#8217;s true: the policy has not changed. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Second Guessing Your Attorney &#124; Probable Cause</title>
		<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/comment-page-1/#comment-3708</link>
		<dc:creator>Second Guessing Your Attorney &#124; Probable Cause</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/?p=630#comment-3708</guid>
		<description>[...] the law doesn&#8217;t apply to the case to avoid a result you don&#8217;t want.  When I see things like this, it&#8217;s the only conclusion that makes sense.  You aren&#8217;t impartial: you&#8217;re afraid [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the law doesn&#8217;t apply to the case to avoid a result you don&#8217;t want.  When I see things like this, it&#8217;s the only conclusion that makes sense.  You aren&#8217;t impartial: you&#8217;re afraid [...]</p>
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		<title>By: RickH</title>
		<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/comment-page-1/#comment-3700</link>
		<dc:creator>RickH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/?p=630#comment-3700</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I guess I don&#039;t feel enough like God, nor do I have enough faith in the other flesh-and-blood gods walking through life with me, to believe that we get it right.  

I can imagine nothing less horrible than being innocent, knowing you&#039;re innocent and being up against folks who think you should be killed unless you can prove that you&#039;re not guilty.

But, &lt;em&gt;more importantly,&lt;/em&gt; this post is about shackling children.  More to the point, neither case involved anyone -- &lt;em&gt;even&lt;/em&gt; a child -- who had committed a felony or shown his or herself to be violent.  Re-read what the judge said about the child who was sitting next to me who was there &lt;em&gt;accused&lt;/em&gt; but not convicted (never was, by the way, at least not in that case -- I don&#039;t know about any other cases with that child) of a misdemeanor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I guess I don&#8217;t feel enough like God, nor do I have enough faith in the other flesh-and-blood gods walking through life with me, to believe that we get it right.  </p>
<p>I can imagine nothing less horrible than being innocent, knowing you&#8217;re innocent and being up against folks who think you should be killed unless you can prove that you&#8217;re not guilty.</p>
<p>But, <em>more importantly,</em> this post is about shackling children.  More to the point, neither case involved anyone &#8212; <em>even</em> a child &#8212; who had committed a felony or shown his or herself to be violent.  Re-read what the judge said about the child who was sitting next to me who was there <em>accused</em> but not convicted (never was, by the way, at least not in that case &#8212; I don&#8217;t know about any other cases with that child) of a misdemeanor.</p>
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		<title>By: Joni</title>
		<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/comment-page-1/#comment-3699</link>
		<dc:creator>Joni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/?p=630#comment-3699</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve ALWAYS been pretty much FOR the death penalty, even with the recent DNA findings.  And I firmly believe that death is the absolute cure for recidivism.  And especially lately, with these heinous crimes being committed by everyone, youngsters too, this is not the time for mollycoddling.  I don&#039;t think cops are hauling in innocent people and drawing and quartering them. I believe in the legal system (note, I refrained from calling it a justice system, because it is far from that).  Read the opinion out of Indiana about Ian Clark, who killed, in cold blood, little 2 year old Samantha, his girlfriend&#039;s daughter left in his care.  People like this are vermin, they are beyond redemption and as far as I&#039;m concerned, should be exterminated.  I know this is a far reach from your post.  But I also think it is disengenuous for you to argue that shackles aren&#039;t warranted in most cases.  Even if one is innocent, one abides by the rules of the court.  And those rules are there to protect the majority.  Once the defendant is adjudicated, if he&#039;s found innocent, shackles come off. Works for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve ALWAYS been pretty much FOR the death penalty, even with the recent DNA findings.  And I firmly believe that death is the absolute cure for recidivism.  And especially lately, with these heinous crimes being committed by everyone, youngsters too, this is not the time for mollycoddling.  I don&#8217;t think cops are hauling in innocent people and drawing and quartering them. I believe in the legal system (note, I refrained from calling it a justice system, because it is far from that).  Read the opinion out of Indiana about Ian Clark, who killed, in cold blood, little 2 year old Samantha, his girlfriend&#8217;s daughter left in his care.  People like this are vermin, they are beyond redemption and as far as I&#8217;m concerned, should be exterminated.  I know this is a far reach from your post.  But I also think it is disengenuous for you to argue that shackles aren&#8217;t warranted in most cases.  Even if one is innocent, one abides by the rules of the court.  And those rules are there to protect the majority.  Once the defendant is adjudicated, if he&#8217;s found innocent, shackles come off. Works for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Joni</title>
		<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/comment-page-1/#comment-3698</link>
		<dc:creator>Joni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/?p=630#comment-3698</guid>
		<description>Well my knee-jerk reaction is a product of the rampant violence in our society, Rick. Violence which law enforcement seems powerless to do anything about.  Just this weekend, in the Houston Metropolitan area alone, a woman was killed by a killer on a 10-day crime spree with a stolen SUV, a 79-year old woman was killed feet from her front door by a mindicant who has a long history of violence; a mother and her two young children are dead at the hands of the mother&#039;s boyfriend who suffered from bipolar disorder and spend the day in terror as she repeatedly begged and pleaded with Montgomery County police to help her cope.  And on and on and on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well my knee-jerk reaction is a product of the rampant violence in our society, Rick. Violence which law enforcement seems powerless to do anything about.  Just this weekend, in the Houston Metropolitan area alone, a woman was killed by a killer on a 10-day crime spree with a stolen SUV, a 79-year old woman was killed feet from her front door by a mindicant who has a long history of violence; a mother and her two young children are dead at the hands of the mother&#8217;s boyfriend who suffered from bipolar disorder and spend the day in terror as she repeatedly begged and pleaded with Montgomery County police to help her cope.  And on and on and on.</p>
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		<title>By: RickH</title>
		<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/comment-page-1/#comment-3697</link>
		<dc:creator>RickH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/?p=630#comment-3697</guid>
		<description>A prisoner, in the cases I&#039;m talking about, anyway, is a person who has been accused of a crime and is innocent unless proven otherwise.

Additionally, we&#039;re talking about children here.

But your comment touches on another point which I&#039;ve been meaning to blog about for a long time: the idea that because there&#039;s a one in a million shot of something happening, we have to take steps to prevent it, even if it means mistreating hundreds of thousands or even millions of people who would never do the things you want to prevent.

I also love the idea that you twisted the time-worn American tradition -- the one that made our nation great -- on its head.  People are not guilty from the day they are born until the day they are proven guilty of some crime.  We don&#039;t take people into court to prove them not guilty.  It&#039;s the other way around: the State believes they have committed a crime and it is the responsibility, the burden, of the State to prove that what the State believes is true beyond a reasonable doubt.  

Thank you for being brave enough to be the living demonstration of what&#039;s gone wrong with our &quot;justice&quot; system.  Like you, most people today assume guilt and wait to have someone show them that they are wrong.  

This is what leads to shackling children.  This is what leads us to mistrust everyone and to assume the worst of each fellow citizen.  This is what has lead to the downfall of the United States of America.  

The only thing left now is for us to find a way to make it official.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A prisoner, in the cases I&#8217;m talking about, anyway, is a person who has been accused of a crime and is innocent unless proven otherwise.</p>
<p>Additionally, we&#8217;re talking about children here.</p>
<p>But your comment touches on another point which I&#8217;ve been meaning to blog about for a long time: the idea that because there&#8217;s a one in a million shot of something happening, we have to take steps to prevent it, even if it means mistreating hundreds of thousands or even millions of people who would never do the things you want to prevent.</p>
<p>I also love the idea that you twisted the time-worn American tradition &#8212; the one that made our nation great &#8212; on its head.  People are not guilty from the day they are born until the day they are proven guilty of some crime.  We don&#8217;t take people into court to prove them not guilty.  It&#8217;s the other way around: the State believes they have committed a crime and it is the responsibility, the burden, of the State to prove that what the State believes is true beyond a reasonable doubt.  </p>
<p>Thank you for being brave enough to be the living demonstration of what&#8217;s gone wrong with our &#8220;justice&#8221; system.  Like you, most people today assume guilt and wait to have someone show them that they are wrong.  </p>
<p>This is what leads to shackling children.  This is what leads us to mistrust everyone and to assume the worst of each fellow citizen.  This is what has lead to the downfall of the United States of America.  </p>
<p>The only thing left now is for us to find a way to make it official.</p>
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		<title>By: Joni</title>
		<link>http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/courts-courthouses/our-policy-hasnt-changed-mr-horowitz/comment-page-1/#comment-3696</link>
		<dc:creator>Joni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/?p=630#comment-3696</guid>
		<description>Well, even if there&#039;s no way in or out without a card, a prisoner is a prisoner for a reason. And I would prefer him to be secured (okay, shackled) rather than running loose in the room free to grab hostages if he so desires.  There was a case in Houston just yesterday in fact, where this idiot went on a 10-day crime spree culminating in the death of a woman crushed between two cars, one of which this idiot was driving. He hit her deliberately. Such a person, with nothing to lose, presumably, is not someone I want &quot;loose&quot; in a courtroom. At least not until and unless he&#039;s proven not guilty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, even if there&#8217;s no way in or out without a card, a prisoner is a prisoner for a reason. And I would prefer him to be secured (okay, shackled) rather than running loose in the room free to grab hostages if he so desires.  There was a case in Houston just yesterday in fact, where this idiot went on a 10-day crime spree culminating in the death of a woman crushed between two cars, one of which this idiot was driving. He hit her deliberately. Such a person, with nothing to lose, presumably, is not someone I want &#8220;loose&#8221; in a courtroom. At least not until and unless he&#8217;s proven not guilty.</p>
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